Thank you. While I don’t agree with everything that was discussed, I loved your tone, Jess, and your understanding that this conflict is not black and white, as many would like us to believe. Thank you also for the nuance in the conversation. I have many cousins in Israel, of which some agree that the current government’s trajectory is disastrous and others who still blindly support Bibi. The solution is not simple. However, talking and engaging will get us to a solution much faster than yelling vile comments at a parade.
I ruminated over posting these thoughts. I was very disappointed that your guest hadn’t done a deeper dive into Wiener before she pronounced him a progressive. He was a PEP—progressive except for Palestine—and he cannot be considered a progressive until he stops accepting donations from, to name a few questionable sources, people and entities like Airbnb, Google, Salesforce (billionaire Marc Benioff), and billionaire Chris Larsen who, with Peter Thiel, helped create and fund the Building a Better California Committee and super PAC that fought SF’s Prop 40 Wealth Tax. Larsen is also on Thiel’s secretive Dialog invitees list, although it’s unconfirmed whether Larsen actually attended any Dialog meetings. I also caught Wiener possibly parroting a comment Netanyahu had made to a visiting group of US freshman congressionals: “The idea that Israel controls US politics is ridiculous.” Wiener repeated this statement at the end of his Cal State Assembly testimony for AB 715, the anti-semitism bill that Newsom signed off on last year. Wiener evidently only came clean about the Gaza genocide after his waffling on the matter was booed at the SF Congressional candidates conference Shushan mentioned. Then came the political fallout to Wiener. If Senator Wiener would like our trust, he will have to stop taking money from wealthy donors who primarily care about their own profits and who team up with Democracy haters like Thiel. We need Wiener to be ethical, transparent and a compassion model for all.
Great conversation. I especially appreciate the recommendations for further reading. As Jess mentions, Omer Bartov’s new book is excellent. I also subscribe to Peter Beinart’s Substack and have read several of his insightful books about Israel and Palestine.
Sorry, you've lost me here. The problem in the MidEast will not be solved by making it more difficult for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, who spends much of their money on building tunnels (which they don't allow civilians to use thus leaving them exposed to attack) and amassing arms with which to overrun Israel or Hezbollah, which has never stopped attacking Northern Israel and causing the extended evacuation of border towns. While I find the current Israeli administration to be abhorrent, the only outcome of reducing aid to Israel will be the death and destruction of the Israeli population, most of whom desperately hope for a 2-state solution.
I support talking about Israel more. Love. Both Jess and Debra. I’ve been listening and learning from Debra for the last 6 months. I didn’t know anything about this before.
Have you heard of this? I'd be interested in your thoughts on Democracy Evolved - I just found it - could this be the way we unite? It just might have all the necessary elements to actually work! https://www.democracyevolved.us.com/#
Jess - In someone else's comment on Substack, lol!
I wish I'd saved who mentioned it, or who's article the comment was left on, but I got too caught up in devouring the website looking for obvious flaws. I didn't find anything glaring, but rather I am intrigued. Even if AI assisted in putting it together, it's a good looking plan, but want to know what other minds think & see.
Indeed it is super interesteting, but I'd be equally interested in your thoughts on it. I'd eagerly read about what you make of it 😉
The Israeli-Palestinian issue is a quagmire and nothing will be accomplished without the willing participation of the people in the region. A two state solution is not currently on the table because, according to the most recent polling I could find (from Gallup surveys conducted June through August 2025, reported in a Gallup article in their "World" section, September 29, 2025) a two-state solution is supported by only 27% of the Israeli population. As one would imagine, that overall support breaks down differently based on ethnicity: approximately 17% of Jewish Israelis support a two-state solution, while Arab Israeli support (among those living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem) wavers between 40%-75%. The views of Palestinians living in Gaza were unable to be surveyed for this poll due to the occupation. This is the rub. How do you implement a peaceful solution when only 27% of the dominant population is in favor of it? Decades of bloodshed between Israelis and Palestinians has made compromise nearly unattainable. Hamas is a violent, destructive force, but so is the Netanyahu government which is literally conducting a genocide. Both entities engage in violence, promote fear of the "other", and ensure there is no accommodation for a peaceful solution, and they do so in order to keep themselves in power. One way to short-circuit this dynamic is to cut-off the $100 million/year Iran funnels to Hamas, and the nearly $4 billion/year the US funnels to Israel and deny both antagonists the resources that allow them to fund their endless conflict. Highly improbable given the current international environment, but even if that were accomplished and the actual, constant bloodshed ended, we are still left with the animosity and distrust between Israelis and Palestinians that has been nurtured for years by the power centers on either side. Until those issues are addressed, and mitigated, there will not be a workable solution for peace in this region. And, considering the intensity and character of the current violence, addressing that animosity and distrust will be a Herculean task.
Some people and forces only want a certain narrative told, and you're going along with it based on who you chose to speak today. I disagree that Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestianians have no agency or responsibility. There is a long list of initiated acts of violence and rejections of offers (without staying at the table) that are conveniently not addressed. Israel is the only place among its neighbors where one can protest. In fact Hamas just prevented Gazans from protesting on June 26th. What I'd like to hear is Palestinians telling us in detail what they see as the free Palestine. I wonder if it is the same vision that you all have in your minds. What borders would they accept? Who could live there? What kind of state? Secular democracy or Muslim state? What kind of government? Would Hamas or the PA be in charge? Would there be elections? (There are supposed to be elections done in the PA-ruled area in the West Bank but they never happen.) Would another Muslim ethnostate be okay for those who reject the existence of only 1 tiny Jewish state? Could non-Muslims live there? Would they have equal rights? Could non-Muslims be part of the government? Would women need permission to do things from male relatives? Would LGBTQ folks be safe there? If Palestinians only accept "from the river to the sea" where would the Jews go? Or they'd be expected to be Dhimmis? I also recommend your audience to watch Corey Gil-Shuster on Youtube interviewing both Palestinians in the West Bank and Israelis on various questions. No filters. Then find one of the videos where he is interviewed about his years of doing interviews.
Please take a look at the J-Street web site. Since meeting Jeremy Ben-Ami about a month ago at a fundraiser for a candidate for US Congress from Pennsylvania and hearing him speak in Boston I have become heavily involved with the organization because their policy positions regarding the Middle East make so much sense. They support Israel, democracy and peace. They believe that criticism of Israel is appropriate and protected by the first amendment. They advocate for a 23 state solution. They would withhold arms from Israel if the arms are used improperly, they would suspend subsidies for Israel and let Israel buy armaments just like any other ally. I recently met with my congresswoman as part of a J St. delegation and she signed onto each of the legislative policy positions it was through J St. that I met Josh Turek and Bobby Palito.☮️
the us treats immigrabts the way hamas treats israel and the way israel treats Palestine. ymthey all falsely treat the others as mortal enemy. trump is evil. hes supported cmby even people. but most anmmerivsns aren't evil. generalizations are cacophony
I don’t think the topic will cool down for people until the Gaza violence stops.
I agree.
Thank you. While I don’t agree with everything that was discussed, I loved your tone, Jess, and your understanding that this conflict is not black and white, as many would like us to believe. Thank you also for the nuance in the conversation. I have many cousins in Israel, of which some agree that the current government’s trajectory is disastrous and others who still blindly support Bibi. The solution is not simple. However, talking and engaging will get us to a solution much faster than yelling vile comments at a parade.
Agree. Thank you!
I ruminated over posting these thoughts. I was very disappointed that your guest hadn’t done a deeper dive into Wiener before she pronounced him a progressive. He was a PEP—progressive except for Palestine—and he cannot be considered a progressive until he stops accepting donations from, to name a few questionable sources, people and entities like Airbnb, Google, Salesforce (billionaire Marc Benioff), and billionaire Chris Larsen who, with Peter Thiel, helped create and fund the Building a Better California Committee and super PAC that fought SF’s Prop 40 Wealth Tax. Larsen is also on Thiel’s secretive Dialog invitees list, although it’s unconfirmed whether Larsen actually attended any Dialog meetings. I also caught Wiener possibly parroting a comment Netanyahu had made to a visiting group of US freshman congressionals: “The idea that Israel controls US politics is ridiculous.” Wiener repeated this statement at the end of his Cal State Assembly testimony for AB 715, the anti-semitism bill that Newsom signed off on last year. Wiener evidently only came clean about the Gaza genocide after his waffling on the matter was booed at the SF Congressional candidates conference Shushan mentioned. Then came the political fallout to Wiener. If Senator Wiener would like our trust, he will have to stop taking money from wealthy donors who primarily care about their own profits and who team up with Democracy haters like Thiel. We need Wiener to be ethical, transparent and a compassion model for all.
I agree with all of that. The only thing I do NOT agree with is yelling obscenities at him at a Pride event he was attending as a private citizen.
Yeah, we’ll have to keep the obscenities to ourselves.
Great conversation. I especially appreciate the recommendations for further reading. As Jess mentions, Omer Bartov’s new book is excellent. I also subscribe to Peter Beinart’s Substack and have read several of his insightful books about Israel and Palestine.
Thank you both for this important conversation.
Sorry, you've lost me here. The problem in the MidEast will not be solved by making it more difficult for Israel to defend itself against Hamas, who spends much of their money on building tunnels (which they don't allow civilians to use thus leaving them exposed to attack) and amassing arms with which to overrun Israel or Hezbollah, which has never stopped attacking Northern Israel and causing the extended evacuation of border towns. While I find the current Israeli administration to be abhorrent, the only outcome of reducing aid to Israel will be the death and destruction of the Israeli population, most of whom desperately hope for a 2-state solution.
Punishing Palestine babies for hamas is genocide. Netanyahu and hamas are birds of a feather.
the problem is not israel. its Netanyahu. most Israelis are appalled with Netanyahu
I support talking about Israel more. Love. Both Jess and Debra. I’ve been listening and learning from Debra for the last 6 months. I didn’t know anything about this before.
@JessCraven
Have you heard of this? I'd be interested in your thoughts on Democracy Evolved - I just found it - could this be the way we unite? It just might have all the necessary elements to actually work! https://www.democracyevolved.us.com/#
Wow this is super interesting! Where did you find it?
Jess - In someone else's comment on Substack, lol!
I wish I'd saved who mentioned it, or who's article the comment was left on, but I got too caught up in devouring the website looking for obvious flaws. I didn't find anything glaring, but rather I am intrigued. Even if AI assisted in putting it together, it's a good looking plan, but want to know what other minds think & see.
Indeed it is super interesteting, but I'd be equally interested in your thoughts on it. I'd eagerly read about what you make of it 😉
The Israeli-Palestinian issue is a quagmire and nothing will be accomplished without the willing participation of the people in the region. A two state solution is not currently on the table because, according to the most recent polling I could find (from Gallup surveys conducted June through August 2025, reported in a Gallup article in their "World" section, September 29, 2025) a two-state solution is supported by only 27% of the Israeli population. As one would imagine, that overall support breaks down differently based on ethnicity: approximately 17% of Jewish Israelis support a two-state solution, while Arab Israeli support (among those living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem) wavers between 40%-75%. The views of Palestinians living in Gaza were unable to be surveyed for this poll due to the occupation. This is the rub. How do you implement a peaceful solution when only 27% of the dominant population is in favor of it? Decades of bloodshed between Israelis and Palestinians has made compromise nearly unattainable. Hamas is a violent, destructive force, but so is the Netanyahu government which is literally conducting a genocide. Both entities engage in violence, promote fear of the "other", and ensure there is no accommodation for a peaceful solution, and they do so in order to keep themselves in power. One way to short-circuit this dynamic is to cut-off the $100 million/year Iran funnels to Hamas, and the nearly $4 billion/year the US funnels to Israel and deny both antagonists the resources that allow them to fund their endless conflict. Highly improbable given the current international environment, but even if that were accomplished and the actual, constant bloodshed ended, we are still left with the animosity and distrust between Israelis and Palestinians that has been nurtured for years by the power centers on either side. Until those issues are addressed, and mitigated, there will not be a workable solution for peace in this region. And, considering the intensity and character of the current violence, addressing that animosity and distrust will be a Herculean task.
What is the title
Some people and forces only want a certain narrative told, and you're going along with it based on who you chose to speak today. I disagree that Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestianians have no agency or responsibility. There is a long list of initiated acts of violence and rejections of offers (without staying at the table) that are conveniently not addressed. Israel is the only place among its neighbors where one can protest. In fact Hamas just prevented Gazans from protesting on June 26th. What I'd like to hear is Palestinians telling us in detail what they see as the free Palestine. I wonder if it is the same vision that you all have in your minds. What borders would they accept? Who could live there? What kind of state? Secular democracy or Muslim state? What kind of government? Would Hamas or the PA be in charge? Would there be elections? (There are supposed to be elections done in the PA-ruled area in the West Bank but they never happen.) Would another Muslim ethnostate be okay for those who reject the existence of only 1 tiny Jewish state? Could non-Muslims live there? Would they have equal rights? Could non-Muslims be part of the government? Would women need permission to do things from male relatives? Would LGBTQ folks be safe there? If Palestinians only accept "from the river to the sea" where would the Jews go? Or they'd be expected to be Dhimmis? I also recommend your audience to watch Corey Gil-Shuster on Youtube interviewing both Palestinians in the West Bank and Israelis on various questions. No filters. Then find one of the videos where he is interviewed about his years of doing interviews.
Please take a look at the J-Street web site. Since meeting Jeremy Ben-Ami about a month ago at a fundraiser for a candidate for US Congress from Pennsylvania and hearing him speak in Boston I have become heavily involved with the organization because their policy positions regarding the Middle East make so much sense. They support Israel, democracy and peace. They believe that criticism of Israel is appropriate and protected by the first amendment. They advocate for a 23 state solution. They would withhold arms from Israel if the arms are used improperly, they would suspend subsidies for Israel and let Israel buy armaments just like any other ally. I recently met with my congresswoman as part of a J St. delegation and she signed onto each of the legislative policy positions it was through J St. that I met Josh Turek and Bobby Palito.☮️
who is more evil. trump? Netanyahu. hamas? Clarence Thomas?
the us treats immigrabts the way hamas treats israel and the way israel treats Palestine. ymthey all falsely treat the others as mortal enemy. trump is evil. hes supported cmby even people. but most anmmerivsns aren't evil. generalizations are cacophony
israel is a good country with a horrible leader. Palestine people are blameless but its leaders like netanyahu are evil. you cant generalize.